EXCLUSIVE: “F*** the pakis” – meet the EDL’s anti-racist poster boy
EXCLUSIVE: “F*** the pakis” – meet the EDL’s anti-racist poster boy Print
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Ever since its formation last year, the English Defence League (EDL) has insisted it is not racist and doesn’t have a problem with ordinary Muslims, just radical extremists. Guramit Singh is a British-born Sikh and EDL activist who will address the EDL’s demonstration in Stoke this Saturday to try and show British Asians that the group is neither racist nor anti-Muslim.

But as Secunder Kermani discovered, scratch beneath the moderate surface and a very different picture of the EDL’s Asian poster boy emerges – one of vitriolic rants against Muslims and insults aimed at the Prophet Muhammad.

 

English Defence League logoGuramit Singh is a British-born Sikh in his late 20s, and one of the leading EDL activists in his hometown in the Midlands. He was introduced to me by an EDL spokesman, himself of mixed-race descent. He told me that people like Guramit were of crucial importance in highlighting the fact that the EDL weren’t racist, and in helping spread the group's message within their own communities.


“Amit’s doing his speech to highlight the fact that we’re not white supremacist, skinhead boot boys basically,” the spokesman explained. “It would be a hell of a lot nicer to get more multicultural people there.” He said he wanted support from as many different communities as possible, including, he said, moderate Muslims.

 

The EDL website highlights Guramit's role in an advert for this Saturday's demonstration in Stoke: "We will have two speakers; one is a Sikh, and the other is one of our black members, both proud Britons, and both of whom have volunteered to help start the year off strong by telling the UAF [Unite Against Fascism] exactly where they can stick their dishonest claim that we are racists." Guramit isn't named as the Sikh speaker on the website, but both Guramit and the EDL spokesman confirmed it was him.


"We are against racists"

When I first spoke to Guramit, he assured me there was a growing number of Sikhs joining the group to protest against militant Islam - although in reality, the numbers are unlikely to be more than a small handful out of Britain's large Sikh community.

Sikh EDL logo - no more than a small handful of Sikhs have actually joinedGuramit told me he had joined the EDL after he was sent an invitation on Facebook to join a group opposing the organisation’s march in Nottingham in December. “I googled EDL and I read what it was about, and I thought to myself straight away, ‘well this is a really good cause why are we marching against them?’ Once I had spoken to a few people on their Facebook site and on the EDL forum I got involved and I’ve been marching ever since.”

He also stressed that the group, one of whose slogans is ‘Black and White Unite’, is not racist. He repeated an assertion I had heard from other EDL members - that because of their acceptance of non-whites they were hated by far-right groups: “We are against racists. That’s our biggest problem with the Nazis, with Combat 18 and the NF. They hate us because we’re not joining a group like theirs.”

"We're not anti-Muslim"

English Defence League demonstration - photo: ReutersBut Guramit was insistent that the EDL wasn’t against Muslims per se: “We’re not here to be anti-Muslim, anybody in the group who is anti-Muslim will be kicked out. We’re here to fight against Muslim extremism. If Hindus were doing what the Muslims are doing, if Sikhs were doing it … whoever was to do it in this country, we would fight against them. I can understand that it can look like we’re singling out Muslims but we’re not, we’re not here to do that. We’re against Muslim extremists.”

Guramit told me he believed there were moderate Muslims who agreed with the aims of the EDL but that they were too scared to speak out. As for why Muslims were protesting against the EDL, for Guramit the answer was simple: “The only reason I can see for anyone protesting against us is that they support Muslim extremists. What other reason are they coming down for? We’re fighting against Muslim extremism so if you’re going to protest against us then that basically means you’re accepting Muslim extremism.”

"Fuck the pakis"

I was slightly troubled by some of Guramit’s views but on the whole they didn’t seem too radical. He was certainly friendly with me, as were most of the other EDL members I had spoken to.

So I was shocked when I added him on Facebook – his profile was littered with racist jokes and offensive rants he had posted against Muslims and the Prophet Muhammad:

You know what, ive got an inkling the profit muhammed was really a bit of a adultering, raping, hate preaching looting Cunt!! Anyone agree, or is it just me????

the muzzies wanna keep away from me im just looking for an excuse im fucked off at the mo fuck the pakis … i just think we shud burn the cunts now!!

Be careful if you go out driving today… driving conditions are awful, ive just come off the road and hit a muslim!! It took me 10 minutes, 2 fields and a golf course, but I got the fucker!!

Hes one of the greatest naturalist of all times, searched the world and showed the british public animals and plants from across the world through the aid of television, and I congratulate him on his retirement, but please before you do retire sir richard attenborough [sic], any chance you can find me a moderate muslim????

- [comment by Guramit Singh] hes just rung me and said hes got more chance of finding bin laden!!

- [comment by another supporter] Ordinary Muslims lol, there aint 1 in birmingham. They all have 6 inches of rat hair hangin from there chin
- [comment by Guramit Singh] how dare you compare muslims to rats, rats deserve more respest than that! lol

u know what does my head in, they say pork is a filthy animal, well ive been in the restaurant and pub business and the health and safety standards are so fucking high its incredible all the way from slaughter down to it being on a plate, but yet they grill frozen kebab meat on a scewer in the open air, the reason for it one of the elders told me they hate pork is because they could never afford it back in the day, 'let’s put that in the quran gives us an excuse not to look like tramps when were trying to recruit to take over the world' CUNTS!!

[Comment aimed at a Muslim who insulted the EDL] hey amir how many times have u fucked your sister today, ure all a bunch of pedos, piss off back to pakistan!!


It would be unfair to automatically take someone’s Facebook comments as gospel, but the frequency and sheer vitriol of the statements, and the approving comments left by other EDL supporters, seem to give the lie to Amit’s and the EDL’s claims not to be prejudiced against ordinary Muslims.

When I asked about him about these comments Guramit claimed that he had been receiving death threats from Muslims at the time, and that this had provoked him into writing many of them. He also said he had an outspoken sense of humour and that many comments were intended as jokes.

He did however admit that he viewed Islam as an inherently extremist religion. “I do believe that the majority [of Muslims] believe in these extreme actions … From what I’ve been told and what I’ve read it is an extremist religion. If you ask the majority of the world they say it is an extremist religion. This is what the British public perceives and this is what I perceive. This is what I know Islam to be. This is what I’m taught from Islam’s speakers.” He pointed to preachers like Anjem Choudary and Abu Hamza as proof of this and said they were responsible for this impression of the faith.

He also defended his opinions on the Prophet Muhammad, highlighting his marriage to Aisha when she was nine years old. The fact that this would now be classed as paedophilia is highlighted by many critics of Islam, although they often ignore that until 1875 the legal age of consent in England was 12.


The EDL spokesman who had introduced me to Guramit said the views he expressed were personal ones and that the EDL did not support or approve of them.

Despite this I wasn’t convinced. Admittedly most people, me included, have written things on Facebook that shouldn’t be taken literally. However it seems too naïve to accept Guramit’s anti-Muslim statements were all just jokes without any malice behind them, given their frequency and vitriolic nature.

His assertions about Islam are, however, indicative of a wider mistrust of the religion in Britain. The very fact that he took extremists such as Anjem Choudary as being representative of the entire religion revealed not only his ignorance but also the effect of the tabloid media’s courtship of such controversial figures – consistently according them publicity denied to more moderate voices.

And Muslims must bear a certain responsibility for this too. As a Muslim myself, I believe the community needs to examine why we are yet to see similar levels of popular grassroots anger directed at the Taliban and Al-Qaeda as (often quite rightly) greet Western policy in the Muslim world.

"Divide and rule"

Guramit played down suggestions that his role was to recruit more Sikhs to the EDL cause – but members of the organisation have been looking to recruit non-Muslim members of Britain's black and Asian communities to cut across accusations of racism. A Facebook group called ‘Sikhs Against Sharia’, which explicitly states it is not anti-Muslim, appears to be a disguised front for organisations such as the EDL and Stop Islamisation of Europe, and its membership is overwhelmingly white and non-Sikh, but its potential recruitment role is clear:

 

Screengrab from Sikhs Against Sharia Facebook group

 

 

It’s a strategy that drew strong condemnation from a Unite Against Fascism spokesperson: “Throughout history racists and bigots have tried to justify and promote their hatred by encouraging different minority groups to attack each other. It’s called divide and rule: playing off one against another so that we all lose out.”

Similarly Jasdev Rai of the mainstream British Sikh Consultative Forum pointed out that the handful of Sikhs joining the EDL and the British National Party are not representative of the rest of the community. He said there was no place in the Sikh religion for “communalism or racism of any kind”.

On a personal level I actually quite liked Guramit. And he and others in the EDL had repeatedly invited me to join them as a supporter on their demonstrations including the protest this weekend in Stoke. As a self-described moderate Muslim profoundly committed to combating violent extremism, according to the official EDL line I should fit right in.

However, while Guramit may be right that the EDL is not racist in the traditional sense - it seemingly has no problem with blacks, Sikhs or Hindus – its claim to oppose only violent extremist Muslims rings hollow.

The EDL spokesman I spoke to said insulting Muhammad “wasn’t on”, and that he had no problem with Muslims practising their religion in Britain as long as they didn’t harm other people. Maybe this is true - for him. But the question is, how many of the EDL’s supporters also believe this – and how many are implacably opposed to the presence of Muslims in this country, regardless of how moderate they are?

Guramit Singh says he has received death threats because of his activism, so The Samosa has agreed not to publish his picture or where he lives. The Samosa has screen-captures of Guramit Singh's Facebook comments but is not publishing them as they would identify him.

 
Comments (59)
EDL cause hatred
59 Tuesday, 25 October 2011 22:38
sarah
It’s time that people recognised them for the violence and thuggery that they use to intimidate Muslims in UK, they are a small fascist fringe organisation, just like Al Mujaroun in fact.
Really sad that you have to be so abusive and full of hate.
58 Tuesday, 25 October 2011 11:55
lean
That people need to express opinion on politics, race or culture with all this venom and hate.
EDL , MUSLIMS
57 Saturday, 03 September 2011 02:08
what ever
Muslims are more racist than us whites, they want it all their own way and so do the Sikhs they are as bad (listen to the rivers of blood speech by Enoch Powell on you tube) he doesnt mention Pakis , just Sikhs and Negroes.
Weve become just another big multicltural slum dumping ground like the rest of Europe and we cant do anything about it, the war was won for the pakis, sikhs , Afghanis , Iraqis etc. What a fkn joke !
Edl
56 Sunday, 31 July 2011 11:32
Edverd
I am amzed that the muslims never talk of ill of a world famous terrorist osama, yet blame EDL?

Hypocricy?
EDL
55 Sunday, 10 July 2011 21:38
Bill
At what point does a person qualify to be British? the EDL parade black and sikh stooges to try and claim they are not racist. It was not that long ago that racist scum like the EDL were trying to stop black and sikh people from coming to this country.As for the ones already here they wanted them kicked out The EDL is quite simply a racist and anti muslim oraganisation which attracts bigots of all backgrounds who use it to promote their anti muslim bigotry.
LOL...Wat?
54 Wednesday, 13 April 2011 02:30
Frank
Funny that a sikh wants to get rid of muslims. Of all the asians/middle easterners iv'e met, its always the sikhs with the most predjudiced views of others. Iv'e met sikhs who have treated me with contempt, yet i've been welcmed by muslims and hindus. Isn't sikhism based pertly on islam any way? EDL is just full of racist illiterate morons who are proud to be uneducated! Iv'e also noticed most muslims learn and speak english very well, I cant say the same for many sikh immigrants who mearly look at me like something they'ved stepped in. For a while I thought the punjabi word gorra was a racist term.
Wow reading what i just wrote makes it look like i dislike sikhs, I do.......the hypocrites like Gurmit. People like him must make guru nanak spin in his grave, thats if he was buried.

Im not racist......I HATE EVERYONE! ESPECIALLY ALL RELIGIOUS MORONS BE THEY CHRISTIAN MUSLIM OR SIKH ETC!!!!
Haters gonna hate!!!!
brapppp
53 Tuesday, 12 April 2011 18:35
lolling
edl r thick and need 2 get jobs and need 2 grow some hair an dhsould stop acting bad becaus eall they are good 4 are shouting and running around on the street and living off other peoples taxes some whoch happen 2 be muslims
Interesting link regarding the point on Aisha's age
52 Saturday, 05 February 2011 02:23
stanley
http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
Aisha's age at the time of marrying Prophet Muhammad
51 Saturday, 05 February 2011 01:33
SM
Secunder, whilst this is an interesting article I'm appalled at your willingness to repeat unfounded slander spouted by the fascist right and the general anti-Muslim agenda regarding Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aisha. She was not six years old at the time of her marriage nor was she only nine years old at its consummation. This has NEVER been an accepted fact - albeit one that many ignorant Muslims are more than happy to repeat and ludicrously attempt to justify. Islamic scholarly consensus has always been that she was approximately 16 years of age at marriage at 19 when this was consummated. This is evidenced by a number of Hadiths relating to her age at the time of certain of the Prophet's revelations. A further "confusion" has been the widespread stylistic omission by classical Arabic scribes of tens, hundreds and thousands in the written form. Please - in the interests of accuracy and common sense - at least attempt to research such claims before promoting and perpetuating these myths across the internet.
EDL & Lunatic Fringe
50 Friday, 04 February 2011 13:18
Streona
Do you ever get the feeling that the EDL and the Islamic lunatic fringe are actually dependent on each other?
whatever>...
49 Sunday, 05 December 2010 22:11
shaggy
EDL are bnp nf etc one of the same, read up on islam an it will prove all your arguments wrong, islam growing in the uk will be a good thing it willget basic moralls and respect back.
Guramit Singh actually LED the edl rampage at Leicester
48 Tuesday, 26 October 2010 13:53
Leicester local
So much for their frequent claims that 'outside agitators' cause the violence at edl demos.

Around 300 edl violently broke through police lines and split into groups that racially attacked and abused local people. One group took part in the attack on the Big John's restaurant that is now famous on youtube.

Here is professional quality film of that day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh_pBLnoTmc

Pause at 3.57 and look at the left of the frame. Guramit Singh is leading the group that attacked Big John's. The same Guramit Singh that organised the 'peaceful demonstration' and functioned as police liason.

EXPLANATION NEEDED please edl. No irrelevant rants about halal or sharia, just explain why the organiser of the demo is leading a group that attacked the police and defenceless citizens of Leicester.
EDL scum needs to be sorted out
47 Wednesday, 13 October 2010 09:03
ThunderFoot
Only an idiot living under a rock would think the EDL isn't racist. A bunch of Nazis, violent drunks, football hooligans, criminal scum are not a legitmate movement, even with a handful of colored mascots. Tony you're talking out of your ass, you lying racist skunk. I bet you never got through grade school.
Mr Singh and his hatred for Pakistanis
46 Monday, 11 October 2010 21:05
Jagz
Mr Singh have you forgotten the darkest part of Sikhs history? 1984 3,000 Sikhs brutally massacred by Indian forces. Who came to the rescue of your fellow Sikhs fleeing persecution from the hands of Hindu extremists? It was Pakistan, yes Pakistan fed, clothed and sheltered Sikhs wanted for death row in India.
You hate Muslims? Then hate your holy SSG book as there are countless poems written by Muslim Sufi saints of which ALL you Gurus held to their hearts.
What’s the matter did your sister run off with a Pakistani and embraced Islam?
EDL Tony - re Muslim takeover
45 Monday, 14 June 2010 12:31
Arif Reza
Tony at Notts EDL is right - all muslims are secretly working to take over Britain.
I know because I myself have been working on just such a plan. The only thing stopping me is that I have a full time job and I get home really tired. I also have to help the kids prepare for their exams and now the footie's on. I just don't have the time!

Just as soon as the World Cup's over and the kids have finished the exams it's straight back to world domination - I promise!

What a joker! By the amount of posts on this website I would suggest that Tony has plenty of time on his hands. I suggest he uses that time to get out and find a job instead of sponging off benefits funded by my hard earned taxes.
*DL
44 Sunday, 30 May 2010 02:16
Mark
The EDL are ignorant paranoid morons. They have no agenda or answers.
If you hate Muslims so much, join up and go to Afghanistan or Iraq to fight them. Don't be surprised if you get a 'good kicking' there.
Useful Idiots
43 Saturday, 29 May 2010 08:37
stuart pearce
It never ceases to amaze me the level of ignorance and stupidity displayed by asians.
Do you think for one moment that a rampaging group of EDL supporters is going to stop and verify that you are not a muslim before cutting you to pieces.
What also cracks me up is the way in which you so quickly accept a framework in which to argue your points.
We are ALL pakis to the EDL - muslim, hindu, sikh, bangladeshi, tamil nadu, sri lankan, indonesian - the list is endless...
When they seek to turn you against each other - remember the words of mohammed ali when asked why he did not go to Vietnam.
"No Vietnamese ever called me a Nigger"
edl
42 Thursday, 20 May 2010 00:04
raheel
edl and amit are ignorant completely stupid thugs who are interested only in demonising muslims. As someone said, football has clamped down on hooliganism, therefore these brain dead yobs need to go elsewhere to vent their prehistoric mindset!
opinion v2
41 Sunday, 18 April 2010 22:43
maaaaaaa
ALMOST every muslim person that i have met and spent alot of time with has been scum, as in stealing from their mates, drinking even though it's against what is written in koran and fighting unfairly, with their cousins baseball bats and at least 6 of them against 1 or two others

Now call me racist or anti-muslim whatever, I am telling you the experiences i have had, My 2 bosses and co worker born in pakistan and muslim and a buddhist from sri-lanka, i hold no hate against any of them, as well as one mate who is pakistani, but converted to christianity- I have no religion myself but is it a coincidence that the only christian asian is the only one that doesn't try to stab me in the back as if im just some whiteboy in their own word?? thats what im basing my views on now

it really gets on my nerves having to trot out the old 'im not racist...but' or 'look at all my coloured friends' line to show that ur not racist..

i dont care about colour i have schizophrenia and i got more things to be bothered about in life i swear to you so sincerely..i wish anyone that argues could get this into their thick head, im saying out of maybe 15 asians i have spent time with maybe 12/13 have tried to stab me in the back,thats a FACT just cos im not muslim but pretended to be mates with me and that makes me sick and want to start judging everyone of them in the same way
opinon
40 Sunday, 18 April 2010 22:27
maaaaaaa
Recently it dawned upon me that every single time i have met these asians, in a predominantly asian area of the UK that they have always, always tried to scav something of me to use me to their advantage like some leeches


the other day after i was supposed to be selling a phone to 1 of them i met them in a group of 6 or 7 i crashed one of them a smoke as usual

one of the dickheads tried putting their hand in my pocket i turned round and pushed him over and he fell in the road and one of them grabbed me and tried grabbing my money AS WELL the other guy gets up tries to start again and then someone else splits it up


now the talk in their own langauge when im walking with them, im with a girl and the one asian i trust so i say f** this im off and they say no stay out still whispering to each other

AGAIN for a second time 2 of them tried jacking me to get me money,,, again i stopped them

the cheeky scum tried complaining that i've hurt his hand and saying 'what are you grabbing me for, whats your problem'

I'm like are you mad? you're walking with me PRETENDING to be my mate yet for the second time in 5 minutes you tried jacking me...im not hanging round just letting you rob my like im some prick when im supposed to be you favours selling you a phone for cheap


this hate i now hold for them hasnt come from being brainwashed or following some racists opinions, it's come DIRECTLY from the experiences i have had- i hear them talking about 'fuck that whiteboy' and about smashing up someones houses, speaking shit about me in their own language whilst stood next to me makes me sick and this group sticks together, mess with 5 of them and you mess with 65 of them, you can't win even when you deserve to, it shouldn't be like this
Seriously, children.
39 Monday, 08 March 2010 20:50
Fahima
Personally, I like living in Britain when people aren't telling me that my hijab is sexist (It's not actually required specifically by my faith, as a note: modesty i required but that is only vaguely defined in the Qur'an). No one's making me cover my hair; my older sister doesn't, and no one in our family bothers her.

I have no desire to kill anyone for their beliefs, nor does anyone I know. I don't want to "go back to Saudi Arabia"; that government is fascist, not Islamic. Besides, I don't think that nationalized religion is necessarily the best idea. Maybe that makes me not a 'real Muslim'. But it doesn't matter. The EDL hates us, no matter what we believe about our religion. The Christians think that some of their scripture was excised, may have been altered later, or isn't literal; what about us? Are we not allowed the luxury of change and adaptation over centuries?

All that any reasonable British Muslim wants is freedom, peace, and good neighbors. We want to be able to worship God, dress in ways we feel appropriate, and be respected for what we believe as much as members of any other religious community. Violent people, on the other hand, take any excuse to be violent. No matter what they say, it has nothing to do with their religion: it's just another tool they can use to try to justify anger and hate. Most Muslims are not like this. We refuse to be like this.

Selamün Aleyküm. Peace be upon you.
muhammed
38 Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:57
Maya
"He also defended his opinions on the Prophet Muhammad, highlighting his marriage to Aisha when she was nine years old. The fact that this would now be classed as paedophilia is highlighted by many critics of Islam, although they often ignore that until 1875 the legal age of consent in England was 12."

Islam teaches that muhammed is a perfect moral example for all muslims to emulate in all places and all times. So according to islam it's acceptable if a middle aged muslim man marries a 9 year old because he is doing what his religion tells him to do (the 'holy prophet'). So making a comparison between the English law and muhammed's actions is dumb. Laws can be changed, muhammed's action's (which all muslims are required to emulate according to their own religion) can not be changed.

The only true nazi's are the UAF thugs and their muslim allies
Where's the evidece
37 Tuesday, 02 February 2010 22:59
Ally
@ Tony

you have written the following:

'i take it then that you agree with a grown man having "sexual intimacy" with a child as young as 1 years old-as permitted in sharia law'

This is complete nonsense- where have you got the evidence for this? Sexually intimacy is encouraged in the institution of marriage within Islam and marriage is deemed best after an individual had reached puberty. So, this is completely wrong.

Have you done any research into Islam independently?
Sikhs and Muslims
36 Monday, 01 February 2010 14:27
Jai
In fact, if the EDL is so concerned about people “taking over the country” (despite the fact that British intelligence services have very recently confirmed that the level of support for Al-Muhajiroun/Islam4UK amongst British Muslims is practically zero), it raises the question of why the EDL is not also mobilising massive public opposition to the BNP -- Considering that the party received nearly a million votes, is in the process of infiltrating the UK’s political system by exploiting the democratic process, and whose leaders include Holocaust deniers & apologists for the KKK who have been caught on video making speeches admitting they’re deliberately scapegoating Muslims as a way to achieve power, protestors against RAF veterans involved in military actions against the Nazis during WW2, have confirmed in writing that they plan to implement full-scale racial apartheid in Britain, and still intend to reduce Britain’s non-white population from 10% to 1% despite having allegedly abandoned their “voluntary repatriation” policies.

The largest haul of weapons intended for terrorist purposes ever found in this country was discovered at a BNP member’s home. And the party’s legal director has also confirmed in writing that although the BNP doesn’t expect to win the next General Election, their aim is to deliberately poison British society so that their racist ideas become as widespread as possible.

If the EDL really is serious about protecting this country and everything it stands for, then perhaps it should prove it by organising public protests against the BNP. You have 50 million white British people to draw support from and I have no doubt that the UK’s 6 million non-white population would also support these actions.
Sikhs and Muslims
35 Monday, 01 February 2010 14:16
Jai
"i do love it when people use whatever happened in britians past to try to re-inforce their arguments."

My point was that Victorians regarded themselves as extremely devout Christians and based their attitudes & actions on what they believed to be the "true" version of Christianity, as per the contents of the Bible and their interpretation of Christianity as an organised religion (the Church of England in this case). The same applied to their slaveowning American counterparts in the Confederacy.

Perhaps the EDL needs to do some research on exactly what powerful British Christian fundamentalists at the time were saying about Indians, or what modern-day Christian fundamentalist groups in America claim about non-Christians or other Christians who disagree with them. If your answer is “interpretations of Christianity change over time” and “you can’t used generalised terms such as ‘the Christians’ because they’re not a homogenous group”, then congratulations – you’ve taken the first step towards realising that exactly the same fact applies to Islam and Muslims.

You should also do some research on Bulleh Shah, Baba Farid, Nizamuddin Auliya, Lal Shahbaz Qalandar, Mian Mir, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Emperor Akbar, Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar, and Prince Dara Shukoh if you're unfamiliar with this aspect of Islamic history in terms of the subcontinent. Likewise for historical Persian Muslims like Rumi and Hafez. Islam went through a huge period of development in that part of the world (as it did in other regions) and therefore isn't a monolithic, homogenous faith any more than Christianity is.

In theory, Islam is supposed to be uniform (the same applies to many other organised religions). In reality, it definitely is not.
Sikhs and Muslims
34 Monday, 01 February 2010 14:07
Jai
In fact, here is the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (an extremely influential and respected Muslim himself) singing hymns from the Sikh scriptures. Translations are provided on the screen along with beneath the expanded “information” section on the top right-hand-side, which also provides further details on Sikh attitudes about this matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWvEYprV7kI

And here is a summary of Guru Gobind Singh's stance towards (and experiences with) Muslims: http://www.thesamosa.co.uk/index.php/comment-and-analysis/society/217-guru-gobind-singhs-stance-towards-muslims.html

All of this information, along with everything I have previously stated so far about Sikhism and Sikh history, can be verified with the global Sikh authorities at the Akal Takht in Amritsar, India. The EDL is welcome to contact them directly if you have any doubts.
Sikhs and Muslims
33 Monday, 01 February 2010 14:06
Jai
“i would rather die on my feet than live on my knees in an islamic country-and as a sikh you should think the same.”

As far as I’m concerned, the primary reference point for attitudes towards Muslims ‘as a Sikh’ are the lives of the Sikh Gurus and the teachings of Sikhism as a religion. Not what the EDL states Sikhs should think on the subject.

Some more facts about Sikhs the EDL seems to be unfamiliar with:

-The foundation stone of the Golden Temple was laid by a Indian Muslim Sufi.
The land for the Golden Temple complex and the city of Amritsar was granted by the greatest Mughal emperor.
-The Sikh scriptures contain numerous hymns by Indian Muslim Sufis along with Islamic names for God such as Allah.
-Muslims are allowed free access to Sikh temples along with the free communal food which is provided, as are visitors from any other religious background.
-The 17th century Sikh religious leader, Guru Hargobind, had a mosque built for Muslims who had settled in the town he founded.
-The final Sikh religious leader, Guru Gobind Singh, had Muslim solders in his Khalsa army and also provided military assistance to the ultimately victorious Mughal prince Bahadur Shah I during the war of succession after the fanatical Emperor Aurangzeb’s death.
sikhs and muslims.
32 Sunday, 31 January 2010 18:26
tony (notts edl)
i do love it when people use whatever happened in britians past to try to re-inforce their arguments.

yes until the 1870's the sexual age of consent in britain was 12 years of age-but this is 150 years ago!!.

like every other country we were a lot less civilised then-a lot happened in the UK that does not happen now-you could be hanged for stealing apples.

the only people who still think it is acceptable to have sexual relations with children are the muslims.

in 1870 homosexuality was illegal here-nowadays the only people willing to persecute and stone you for it are the muslims.

in the civilised UK today-if you follow a certain religeon-people are prepared to tolerate this so long as it does not interfere with their way of life-with the muslims-anyone who does not submit to the will of allah is an infidel and deserves to die.

in islamic law-a grown man is able to "buy" a child at birth for future matrimony and conjugal rights-they do not purchase the child-but their private parts.

the only people who refuse to co-operate with the modern world are the muslims.

in their country they call it tradition-here we call it paedophilia.

in their own country muslims charge non-islamics something called the "dizya"-protection money so that they can live in peace unmolested by islamics.

they call it an arrangement-we call it extortion.

i would rather die on my feet than live on my knees in an islamic country-and as a sikh you should think the same.
Re: Sikhs and Muslims (continued)
31 Sunday, 31 January 2010 17:52
Jai
One final point:

"on siding with the muslims i take it then that you agree with a grown man having "sexual intimacy" with a child as young as 1 years old-as permitted in sharia law"

My stance towards Muslims is identical in all aspects to that of the Sikh Gurus, especially Guru Gobind Singh.

Is the EDL claiming that Guru Gobind Singh condoned the notion of grown men having "sexual intimacy" with children ?

Speaking of alleged theological support for the abuse of little girls, it's probably worth mentioning at this stage that the legal age of consent in Britain was just 12 until the 1870s, prior to which social attitudes allegedly based on "fundamental Christian values" (as per the Victorians' notion of them, anyway) were in full force.
Re: Sikhs and Muslims (continued)
30 Sunday, 31 January 2010 16:53
Jai
As for the EDL -- the British equivalent of the RSS, the Shiv Sena and the Bajrang Dal, if ever there was one -- it speaks volumes about your level of paranoia and intellectual bankruptcy if you have zero interest in understanding the diversity within Islam and amongst Muslims themselves, or believe that the British Muslim population is predominantly full of "secret sympathisers" for the Islamist fanatics, or conveniently disregard a thousand years of Indian history.

It's the equivalent of someone claiming that Christianity and Christians are represented solely or predominantly (but most accurately) by those members of the Confederacy during the American Civil War who believed they literally had the God-given (and religiously-mandated) "right" to own slaves and were prepared to kill hundreds of thousands of their fellow Americans in order to defend this "right"; or the huge numbers of 19th century British Christian Evangelists who believed they literally had the God-given (and religiously-mandated) “right” to invade, subjugate and exploit the Indian subcontinent, by any means necessary. There are even authenticated historical records of senior officials who were actively promoting the notion of utilising the full force of the British Empire to convert India’s entire population to Christianity en masse, along with British soldiers deliriously singing Psalms whilst butchering their victims during the retribution they inflicted on Indian soldiers and ordinary civilians alike during the “Indian Mutiny” of 1857.

I’m sure the EDL wouldn’t want people to make certain assumptions about British Christians and Christianity as a result of the above, particularly in relation to the points involving India specifically.
Re: Sikhs and Muslims
29 Sunday, 31 January 2010 16:46
Jai
"nobody is attempting to "divide and conquer" anyone"

'Divide and conquer' is exactly what the EDL is attempting to do -- your own response confirms this, despite your claims to the contrary.

"in the islamic way-you are not a muslim-you are an infidel (non-beleiver).....and that means death!."

There are numerous examples from the past thousand years of Indian history which contradict this assertion. Islam isn’t a monolithic, homogeneous religion any more than Christianity is.

“but the fact is the sikhs simply will not take the side of the muslims in this equation-the majority will stay neutral”

The EDL (and similar groups like SIOE and the BNP) is already being actively opposed by Sikhs in this matter, as mentioned in the main article.

“you want to stick up for them fine-but don't keep telling us (and amit) where we are going wrong.”

I don't need to tell Amit where he's going wrong -- the lives and teachings of all 10 of the Sikh Gurus do that instead, including (indeed, especially) several of the later Gurus who were heavily militarised and who suffered far worse than anyone in this country at the hands of some Muslims. Amit should never forget this.

Amit is welcome to his opinions, but he is in absolutely no position to represent himself as a "Sikh" in these matters, because the founders of Sikhism itself took the diametrically opposite stance under broadly similar (in fact, much, much worse) circumstances. And that symbol in the main article stating “Sikhs support the English Defence League” combined with the Sikh ‘khanda’ insignia is an oxymoron; it’s the equivalent of “Christians support the Taliban”.
sikh's and muslims.
28 Friday, 29 January 2010 20:12
tony (notts edl)
nobody is attempting to "divide and conquer" anyone-for two reasons.

1/my assumptions are based on what i have seen with my own eyes.

and 2/-you can talk all you like-but the fact is the sikhs simply will not take the side of the muslims in this equation-the majority will stay neutral-there has been too much bad blood over the centuries between them-something even you cannot deny.

i personally have nothing against muslims or their way of life-my quarrel is with the fact that they are trying to enforce their way of life here upon our indegineous people.

the islamic way and its brutal and draconian sharia law (on siding with the muslims i take it then that you agree with a grown man having "sexual intimacy" with a child as young as 1 years old-as permitted in sharia law)has no place in our society.

many aspects of sharia completly go against our statutory laws anyway.

and so instead of all the human rights red-tape we have to fight through-we should be simply allowed to say no to the enforced imposition of the muslim way of life in our land.

we never had cause to form groups like the edl etc and take to the streets with the sikhs or hindus-just the muslims.

if (god forbid) the prophecy of certain individuals comes true and we have a muslim premier in 20 years time-as a sikh-you had better either convert-or leave! because by virtue of their known intolerance for other creeds and religeons muslims are by far the most racist people on the planet.

in the islamic way-you are not a muslim-you are an infidel (non-beleiver).

and that means death!.

you want to stick up for them fine-but don't keep telling us (and amit) where we are going wrong.
Re: false comparisons between muslims and sikhs by the edl
27 Friday, 29 January 2010 12:39
Jai
"so the sikhs have a tall flag flying outside their temples-i can live with that!....after all it is only a flagpole"

Our temples frequently have far more than that, as detailed in my previous comment.

"and the bottom line is the muslims could not hold a candle to the sikhs in terms of respect.....this is why the sikhs are welcome here with open arms-and the muslims are not."

As I said, "divide & rule" is a very old trick. Nice try, but no cigar, Robert Clive.
false comparisons between muslims and sikhs by the edl
26 Thursday, 28 January 2010 23:12
tony (notts edl)
so the sikhs have a tall flag flying outside their temples-i can live with that!.

after all it is only a flagpole-better than the bloody great dome that would adorn the local mosque.

i remember driving past the local sikh temple once-and i saw a young sikh youth suddenly stop-place his hands together as though in prayer and bow toward the entrance of the temple-then continue walking down the street.

in st annes nottingham there is a mosque were muslim youths just swagger by seemingly ignorant of its presence-they just walk by uterring phrases like "you know wot ah meen" or "innit right"-it comes down to respect you see.

and the bottom line is the muslims could not hold a candle to the sikhs in terms of respect.

this is why the sikhs are welcome here with open arms-and the muslims are not.
False comparisons between Muslims and Sikhs by the EDL
25 Thursday, 28 January 2010 20:27
Jai
"why can the muslims not live as the sikhs do-quietly and with manners and decorum-there is a sikh temple 500 yards from where i live-unless you walked into it you would hardly know it was there"

It’s probably worth taking a look at the Soho Road gurdwara (Sikh temple) in Birmingham. Or the very large gurdwara which was built in Southall a couple of years ago. Or one of the gurdwaras in Ilford whose exterior facing the main road has been designed to reflect the hybrid Mughal-Rajput-influenced architecture from India’s medieval era. Or any number of other gurdwaras around the world. Our temples even usually have a very tall flag with the Sikh ‘khanda’ symbol so that people can spot them from a distance.

Incidentally, that was a pretty transparent attempt at “divide and rule”. Still trying to play that game after 250 years, I see.
sharia in the uk (con't)
24 Thursday, 28 January 2010 08:44
tony (notts edl)
live among us by all means-but do not try to enforce you way of life upon us.

we are not interested in sharia law or its concepts-this is england and we have our own set of rules and regulations.

if you come here then you must live as we do-or go home.

any musloms born hee must live as we do anyway-after all do they not proudly announce themselves as "british muslims"??.
sharia in the uk.
23 Thursday, 28 January 2010 08:40
tony (notts edl)
so we agree that choudhry should be prosecuted.

but if he were to be sent to prison for treason this would only make him a hero in his fellow extremists eyes.

the action must come from within-what exactly are the "moderate muslims" doing about the preacher of hate living in their midst?-i will tell you-nothing!!.

oh yes of course he is being chastised like a naughty schoolboy being told off for stealing cakes-but wheres the direct action??-why is he still living in a £350.000 house and claiming £25.000 a year in benefits?.

i shall tell you why-all muslims have a secret agenda-and that is one day to take over this land and turn it into an islamic caliphate-they use the like of choudhry and bakri as mouthpeices to divert the attention away from them while they continue their work in the islamification of the uk-and this is why the likes of choudhry and his followers still live within the muslim communities.

the evidence is all around us-supermosques springing up all over the place-large supermarket chains forced to back down when a muslim complains that a valued customer is wearing a help the heroes wristband-pubs that have closed down being turned into mosques-entire swathes of our cities turned into muslim only ghettoes-children forced to learn urdhu and to read the q'uran in school-the attempt to replace the nativity with eid in schools-supermarkets displaying fresh halal meat while the rest of us have to put up with prepacked rubbish-the list goes on-and its a deppressing one.

why can the muslims not live as the sikhs do-quietly and with manners and decorum-there is a sikh temple 500 yards from where i live-unless you walked into it you would hardly know it was there-that does not have a great green dome on top spoiling our landscape!.
Re Tony - a guided tour of Islamic law in the UK
22 Sunday, 24 January 2010 19:43
Editor
Tony

Re Anjem Choudary breaking the law - I agree. He should be prosecuted.

Re Muslim gangs - this is on The Samosa's radar, and an issue we hope to report on further down the line.

Re Islamic law - you are confusing different things here. The only Muslim preacher I know of who calls for sharia law to govern *all* British people (ie including non-Muslims) is Anjem Choudary - there may be one or two others, but no more than that.

Next come those who want sharia courts to be available to *Muslims* in Britain. I personally have grave doubts about this, but only Muslims who agree to use sharia courts would be governed by sharia - no non-Muslims. Note that sharia courts in Britain rule almost entirely on marital affairs, not criminal matters (with a couple of worrying exceptions). I'd say a substantial minority of British Muslims support having the option of using sharia courts for marital affairs etc. They can do so under the Arbitration Act. This doesn't stop British law - particularly criminal law - applying to the Muslim community. Otherwise, how is Abu Hamza in jail? How was Islam4UK banned?

Then we come to those British Muslims who favour sharia law in Muslim countries, but not here. Many religiously conservative Muslim preachers support this. Again, I'd say a substantial minority of British Muslims take this view. I think it's a dreadful idea - but it doesn't amount to wanting sharia law to govern British non-Muslims.

There are some who want sharia courts for British Muslims; there are some who want sharia law to govern Muslim countries. But only a miniscule number of British Muslims actually want sharia law to govern British non-Muslims like you and me.
laws
21 Sunday, 24 January 2010 18:28
tony (notts edl)
yes it is wrong for members of the EDL to wish death upon anjem choudhry.

in the UK this is illegal-but in islamic law it is acceptable to threaten or even kill someone who speaks out against islam-these are merely words-yet in the muslim way they could cost you your life.

but you have to realise that anjem choudhry has broken the law here-he wished that all homosexuals should be stoned and would be under an islamic parliament-he has urged all muslims to embark on a fatwa against the UK which involved the killing of christians in our country-HE has broken the law as well.

in respect of the authors comments about football hooligans-yes you are quite right-but after all we cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs-perhaps we can still discuss the gangs of young muslims who stalked the streets of nottingham after the demo there looking for white people to attack-one should not throw stones in a greenhouse!!.

on a final note-british law does not apply to muslims-because they absolutely refuse to adhere to our laws-the evidence here lies within their attempts to enforce their own law (sharia) upon our people.
EDL are racist thugs
20 Saturday, 23 January 2010 11:47
Murray
EDL are racist thugs, you only need to read their comments and the language they use towards Muslims to see they can’t wait to go and start kicking people’s head in. Their attempts to show themselves as anything else are a series of lies and con tricks.
Thugs they are and thugs is how they conduct themselves.
The football point is very relevant, because racist thuggery has now been forced out of most league grounds in England, the racists thugs have been looking for new home for a while, hence why the EDL turned up.
Absolutely right, Tony
19 Saturday, 23 January 2010 01:18
Editor
"Amit is entitled BY LAW to oppose islam if he feels the need to do so in the UK without fear of reprisals for his life."

I couldn't agree more, Tony. However much I disagree with his views, his life should not be endangered because of them.

I assume you agree, Tony, that Anjem Choudary - utterly despicable as he is - is entitled by law to support sharia law, oppose Britain's military intervention in Afghanistan and generally rant and rave and make an absolute twunt of himself without fear of reprisals for his life?

And if you do agree, I assume you'll tell that to the masses of EDL members on Facebook saying how quickly they'd kill him if they saw him? Or were they, like your friend Amit, also just joking?

Actually, one final thing while I'm at it, because I'm dying to ask. The EDL wants Muslims to abide by British law. Absolutely right. The EDL wants Muslims to stop demanding their own laws, ie sharia. Legitimate demand (though I think the Arbitration Act currently gives legal basis to sharia courts).

But if the EDL places such great importance on observing Britain's laws, why are so many of its members football hooligans (sorry, 'casuals') who seem to love nothing more than beating each other up and fighting running battles with the police outside football matches?

Or doesn't the British law apply to you?
death threats
18 Saturday, 23 January 2010 00:15
tony (notts edl)
at the bottom of the authors post it reads "amit singh says he has received death threats because of his activism"

can i remind certain individuals that amit is entitled BY LAW to oppose islam if he feels the need to do so in the UK without fear of reprisals for his life.

in regard to those who threaten amit for speaking his mind-this is not and never will be an islamic state-you cannot behave here as you would in baghdad.

i therefore rest my case.
can we please dispense with the bullsh*t??
17 Friday, 22 January 2010 22:50
tony (notts edl)
please do not bring the theological ideologies of the islamic and sikh faiths into this-it has nothing to do with religeon.

the reason the edl was formed was because of the actions of extremists who belong to the islamic faith-not the sikh or hindustani faith-the islamic one.

you can come out with all the talk you like-but the bottom line is the only threat to our country comes from extremist muslims-no other.

that is not a racist comment-its a fact!!.

my best freind is black-there is a man who considers me to be his son he has known me for so long-he is asian.

i joined the edl because i could see what was happening to my beloved land-i could see the mosques springing up all over the place-i could see the attempts at changing the nativity in schools in favour of eid-i could see the attempted indoctrination of our children by teaching them urdhu and expecting them to read the q'uran in primary school.

the muslims will never be happy until our land is one entire islamic caliphate-if anyone speaks out they use their favoured weapons-the words "racist" and "fascist".

but the people are beginning to see the light-when i walk through my home town wearing my edl shirt-many people come up and shake my hand.

we are their voice.
Ahem
16 Friday, 22 January 2010 14:58
Editor
d.d, since you like living here so much, perhaps you'd do us the courtesy of developing a basic grasp of our language...
edl
15 Friday, 22 January 2010 14:49
d.d
Hi,I'am a sikh and totally agree with amit!Too many muslim lads bullshiting islam.If they don't like living in the u.k fuck off to saudi arabia ,Have your sharia law,The onlt thing stopping the bullshit extremists prechers like choudary is he's fucking sponging benefits!
Re: Hold on
14 Friday, 22 January 2010 12:30
Jai
"How would Muslims deal with Christians, Sikh, or Hindus ruling in Mecca and Medina."

Completely irrelevant. This is about Muslims in/from the Indian subcontinent, not thousands of miles away in Saudi Arabia.

Furthemore, although Mecca and Medina are the holiest places in Islam, they are not the only holy sites, especially where millions of South Asian Muslims are concerned. The Indian subcontinent as a whole has numerous Sufi shrines due to the last thousand years of history, especially in the north and most of all in the region covering both northern India and modern-day Pakistan.

"I'd say if your policies, religious or temporal, get you run out of your own country, your Gurus are wrong"

Unlikely, given the fact that they were from a region in the subcontinent where Muslims had already resided in large numbers since the 11th century, in a part of the world which still has more Muslims than anywhere else, and lived at a time when the Mughal Empire was at the height of its power. I doubt the EDL and similar groups know more about Islam and Muslims than the Sikh Gurus did.

"or the way you choose to interpret them is drastically flawed."

Or, more realistically, the way that the EDL and similar groups choose to interpret the teachings of the Sikh Gurus and indeed the diversity within Islam itself is drastically flawed.
Re: Hold on
13 Friday, 22 January 2010 12:28
Jai
"but all that fine sentiment didn't stop muslims from ethnically cleansing Pakistani Punjab of Sikhs and Hindus"

Perhaps if the British East India Company hadn't launched two extremely bloody wars of aggression in the mid-19th century, subsequently annexed the huge chunk of Sikh-governed territory, systematically disarmed the entire Sikh population, followed by the colonial authorities at the time implementing their 'divide & rule' policies to the hilt for a century afterwards, nobody would have been able to 'ethnically cleanse' Sikhs & Hindus from the region or indeed had the desire to do so.

"and denying and restricting access to the places of Sikh-ism's birth."

Sikhs in India aren't 'denied or restricted' access to the 'places of Sikhism's birth' in Pakistan, especially not these days and most of all not on Sikh festival days associated with those sites.

And the most important place in Sikhism, the Golden Temple complex (ie. Harmandir Sahib and the Akal Takht), is still in India. So is Anandpur Sahib, the birthplace of the Khalsa.
Hold on
12 Thursday, 21 January 2010 21:41
AlexDoine
Everybody here is tripping over themselves to denounce this guy as an idiot and stooge for a "racist EDL Fascists" I haven't made up my mind yet. Some Sikhs say the teachings of their Gurus
advocate peace between religious groups, nice in theory, but all that fine sentiment didn't stop muslims from ethnically cleansing Pakistani Punjab of Sikhs and Hindus and denying and restricting access to the places of Sikh-ism's birth. That's what happens when fine theory meets the cold hard facts of Islamic supremacism and pathological hatred for kuffar, a arabic word on par with "nigger" in it's obscene depiction of non-muslims, as the vile word "nigger" is to black people. How would Muslims deal with Christians, Sikh, or Hindus ruling in Mecca and Medina. I'd say if your policies, religious or temporal, get you run out of your own country, your Gurus are wrong or the way you choose to interpret them is drastically flawed.
If muslims want to carve out a bit of old Britain for their very own, they become colonists, and as such and everybody knows colonialism is bad, and the native population has every right to drive the settlers out. British were driven out of India, 1 million ethnically French settlers were driven out of Algeria, many of whom were born in the territory. just sayin'
Re: EDL racist thugs take advantage of one idiot
11 Thursday, 21 January 2010 18:25
Jai
Dear Rafi,

You are absolutely correct on all points (and thank you for your kind words). I think that someone also needs to remind Amit that the 17th century Sikh spiritual & political leader Guru Hargobind actually had a mosque built for the Muslims who had settled in the town he founded, which was recently renovated via a joint project in India involving both Sikh and Muslim volunteers, as detailed in the second Pickled Politics article I mentioned.
EDL racist thugs take advantage of one idiot
10 Thursday, 21 January 2010 13:54
rafi
Dear Jai, you are very right, as I said earlier, sad that they have found one idiot to
to dance to the EDL racist tunes, to try and exploit some of the horrible things that happened during partition on all sides. Your words and thoughts are a credit to you and your great community, unlike this badly educated fool that has jumped into bed with the EDL. I only hope somebody can talk some sense to him re how disgusting his actions are, ignorance and stupidity can be forgiven, to carry spreading such poison to build tensions between the youth of our communities, when it has been pointed out to you the harm of your actions can not. What does this idiot hope to start, tensions Muslim and Sikh youths, would that make him and his skinhead EDL buddies happy. Would that help the campaigns in Pakistan by citizen and peace groups to open up large scale access to the Sikh holy shrines in Pakistan to Sikh pilgrim groups.

http://lahorenama.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/indo-pak-sikhs-mark-birth-anniversary-of-fourth-guru/#more-1484

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/provinces/09-over-370-indian-sikh-yatrees-visit-hassabdal--szh-02
Amit Singh's attitude towards Muslims & Islam totally contradicts Sikhism's founders
9 Thursday, 21 January 2010 12:02
Jai
(Cross-posted from Pickled Politics, where I first came across this article):

Secunder,

Good article. Amit Singh's attitude towards Muslims is certainly disturbing, especially as he is representing himself as a Sikh in this matter (I happen to be a Sikh too). The symbol combining the Sikh 'khanda' with the EDL is also offensive and effectively an oxymoron.

If you haven't read these before, please take a few minutes to read the following articles about the real stance that Sikhs (and Sikhism as a religion) are supposed to have towards Muslims and Islam, as per certain historical precedents during periods when some of Sikhism's pivotal figures had to deal with their era's equivalent of radical/militant Islam. You may wish to show these articles to Amit too, particularly in relation to the following:

"He did however admit that he viewed Islam as an inherently extremist religion. “I do believe that the majority [of Muslims] believe in these extreme actions … From what I’ve been told and what I’ve read it is an extremist religion...He pointed to preachers like Anjem Choudary and Abu Hamza as proof of this"

"Guru Gobind Singh's stance towards Muslims": http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/6688

"Guru Hargobind: Mosques, Minarets and Multiculturalism": http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/6771
EDL
8 Thursday, 21 January 2010 00:29
Zan Zubair
I can understand the angre of some extremist Sikhs against Muslims. Whilst Muslim got two states from old india, the sikh dream of a khalistan was well and truly crushed in 1984. But why hate on us muslims? It wasnt us who attacked your holiest site. Now some losers go and take their angre out on muslims by joining the EDL, lol, well lets say for arguments sake the EDL ever came to power in this country. After the muslims, it would be the sikhs, hindu's and blacks who are sent packing. But it wont happen though. Theres far too many decent sikhs to allow these extremist sikhs to have much of a voice.
the lies don't wash anymore!!
7 Wednesday, 20 January 2010 20:52
tony (notts edl division)
khalid...

so while the EDL are "going into asian areas like a mob punching spitting and vandalising properties" they are wearing the shirt with the EDL logo on it then so everone can see who they are???.

all the things purported be happening at edl demos simply have not happened and could not happen-and for one good reason.

at demos members of the EDL cannot take a sh*t without the police being completely aware of it-we go where they tell us to-end of!!.

they are on the case the second we get off the trains etc-and they make sure we leave town in equal numbers-so there isno way any gang containing edl members could run through asian areas-the police simply would not allow it.

so like i said...

the lies don't wash anymore.
EDL Racist thugs
6 Wednesday, 20 January 2010 14:01
khalid
It's clear what EDL are, they target Asian areas and go in like a mob punching spitting and vandalising shops and properties, they take the lead from what the NF used to do in Southall, although thankfully the police are better at controlling racist hooligans now rather than protecting them as they did in Southall. the Sikh community have distanced themselves f rom this one idiot who is so full of hate and venom towards other Asians, for being a different religion that he will get into bed with the EDL BNP shame on him. Maybe somebody can talk him through the history of racist violence carried out by the petrol bombing street thugs BNP towards Asians that the EDL now carrying the tradition on from and just what a messed up disgrace he is.
"Divide and rule"?
5 Wednesday, 20 January 2010 13:46
Darren Lee
Let us not quote the UAF as being a credible source of information. We all know they are a Communist organisation with die-hard Reds at their core. They have their own agenda but nobody seems willing to confront them on it.

The UAF would know all about divide and rule.
Dialogue is good for all communities and helps break down barriers and social mistrust.
The UAF attempts to cultivate a culture of fear and wishes to act like 'Nanny knows best' and think for non-white ethnic groups.

This much was evident at the Muslim Debate Initiative in Holborn last December. Many different groups were represented and we had a full demographic of spectators firing questions at the panellists.

However, the UAF stood outside with their placards screaming and hollering and making threats to any white person whom they felt did not share their views (and I have the photos to prove it). A Muslim colleague of mine told me that the UAF had step in front of her and begged her not to enter the building as the fascist BNP were also in attendance.

The evening was a constructive one and passed off without incident, that is despite the UAF's best intentions to cause a race-riot outside.

One of the Muslim brothers even apologised for the threats made to me by the bald, fat and ridiculous UAF chap outside the doors, shaking his head as he told me: "There is no discussion with those (UAF) people".

That about sums the UAF up for me.
EDL = BNP = violent racist street thugs evidance
4 Wednesday, 20 January 2010 11:41
mark
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/English-Defence-League-Hooligans-Unmasked.php

How much more evidance do you want? re the racist thugs and hooligans behind EDL, as well as of course the words of their new poster boy in this piece. Bunch of brownshirts the lot of you, may as well put oswald mosley on your EDL posters.
Dont talk rubbish rafi.
3 Wednesday, 20 January 2010 00:31
Village
So rafi, where have you seen these fascist street thugs spitting in the faces of pensioners and throwing bricks through windows. Certainly not at EDL demo,s. If anyone is stirring up racial tensions its you and your wild unfounded accusations. You have obviously never been near a EDL demo or seen us in `action` or you wouldnt be spouting such utter BS. The truth is Sikhs and Hindus are fed up playing second fiddle to the islamic religion who refuse to denounce the extremists in their midst and who give Asians a bad name. Sort your own house out rafi and stop telling lies.
my opinion.
2 Tuesday, 19 January 2010 19:43
tony (notts EDL division)
i am one of those people who sit back and look at the wider picture.

yes it is easy to label us fascist racist thugs-after there is good and bad in all of us (ask the forest supporter who was assualted after the notts demo by a gang of muslim youths-and all he had done is gone to a football game he had nothing to do with the EDL-or perhaps we could discuss the intentions of the muslim arrested for attempting to take a container of petrol into the march-car run out did it??)

or perhaps we could discuss the motives of the muslim gang surrounding a young couple in nottingham in lister gate that night-it was only due to the timely intervention of the police that stopped a nasty incident-so yes while i accept that we do attract one or two undesirables-their only targets were known members of antifa and the UAF-NOT innocent members of the general public who have no truck with the EDL or its beleifs.

just my opinion thats all..
EDL = BNP
1 Tuesday, 19 January 2010 11:59
rafi
Anybody that has been near a EDL demo or seen them in action knows that they are a bunch of racist thugs, usually beered up who go out on a general hate fest in mainly Asian areas, the idea that your average EDL fascist street thug differentiates between a Sikh pensioner or Muslim pensioner when they spit in their faces or a Sikh owned shop and a Muslim owned shop when they put bricks through the window is laughable. It is sad that they have found a couple of idiots to try and gloss this over and one can see the level of brains this guy has from his comments, more sad is also the very real hurt and harm that was done during partition between Sikh and Muslim communities in the Punjab and this is a subject that all community activists and groups know to be very careful around. Years of effort from both Muslim and Sikh groups has gone into building links between Punjabis of all religions in the UK and along comes a fascist ignorant prat like this to start building hate again, he’s a ignorant fascist moron and is clearly in the right company with EDL buddies.